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White Mountain Independent

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From other pens Why Prop 204 is bad for Arizonans

Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:00 am | Updated: 7:14 am, Wed Oct 3, 2012.

Proposition 204 (“Permanent Sales Tax Increase, Education & Transportation”) is not the same temporary tax that is in place now and that will expire in 2013. This is a whole new tax with many changes written into the initiative.

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  • Discuss

Welcome to the discussion.


  • wes alderson posted at 9:20 pm on Tue, Oct 2, 2012.

    wes alderson Posts: 9935

    WMI Readers:

    Let's see if this is one of the times that Arizona Al and I agree on an issue. I remember nodding my head when I read Arizona Al's comments, six months ago, that a temporary tax become permanent.

    Here that is what is happening, except even more. I have not yet studied the measure, but it sounds like we are building ever-increasing tax hikes into our laws, and that is always a bad idea - it is indexing.

    I intend to listen to what others say on this site and learn from you all.

  • Rick Slo Low posted at 7:31 am on Wed, Oct 3, 2012.

    Rick Slo Low Posts: 1369

    No matter if its this 1% tax or 99 others like it if they are for the children arn't they worth it?

  • Terry H posted at 11:40 am on Wed, Oct 3, 2012.

    Terry H Posts: 56

    1% more in sales taxes affects the poorest and the elderly more than anyone else. The whole referendum system needs to be abolished. Bond issues, that lay the debt on future generations, taxes like the cigarette tax being used for the "children" which is controlled by non-elected bureacrats with a lack of oversight, or the nightmare of the Independent Redistricting Commission which costs the taxpayers untold millions. Look to the state to our west to see the effect of out of control special interests who place measures on the ballot which create debt without creating a source of income to pay for the debt and restrictions on private property rights. Is this what we want? Why do we elect representatives and senators, if not to determine how appropriations are to be divided amongst the needs and requirements of the populace and state? We are in an economic period where everyone is having to make sacrifices, and that should include our schools and highways. Once real recovery comes, then increase appropriations via the legislature, it is their responsibility, not some unelected bureacrat on some commission

  • pioneerfamily posted at 3:19 pm on Wed, Oct 3, 2012.

    pioneerfamily Posts: 612

    "The Arizona legislature, which is elected by the people and accountable to the people"

    Really Syl, you can say that with a straight face????

    You are accountable to your lobbyists. Period.

    Why would 1/3 of our state budget go to prisons?

    Oh yes, that's right, the prison lobby. The one that owns the whole legislature.

    $385,000,000 to an out of state outfit just to run our prisons. Really, we have no one in AZ who can do that job? We have to send that money out of state.?

    Our prison budget EXCEEDS our education budget??

    Like your type likes to say, "Our kids are our future". Where, as future prisoners????

  • wes alderson posted at 11:56 pm on Wed, Oct 3, 2012.

    wes alderson Posts: 9935

    Why Pioneer Family, Tsk tsk tsk.

    How do you mean that comment about "where your 'type" likes to say? What "type" is Sylvia Allen? Was that a bigotted comment by you?

    However, I like you comment that one third of our budget might go to our prison budget. If that is true, then one third of our population must go to prison. I volunteer - ahhhh permenant health care, three square meals la day. Sounds like heaven.

    I still would demand that Arizona Al have the cell crossed from mine we can continue to argue.

  • Daniel posted at 10:23 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Daniel Posts: 11

    Sen Allen, yes a tax is a tax but I think your biggest problem with it is that it ties the hands of the elected officials and limits the "creative" budgeting the legislature has become famous for. Speaking of education, if it is a priority for our State why would the legislature require school districts create a revolving line of credit to cover the months the state holds the funding so they can use that money promised to the school? Sure they fund the money but not until the next fiscal year. The schools the can pay off the loan the state required but then are also left with the interest. I am sick and tired of the state caring less for the kids then they do their own elected jobs. You say our education funding is down only slightly from the 2008 funding, well when more than 10% of that is funded by the $10 per $1000 in sales how in the world do you propose to fund that 10%? What are you going to cut to come up with the difference. Our schools are already operating at a bare minimum of support staff any further cuts and you will see the good teachers fleeing to other jobs or to other states! Really do you think we will notice a big tax relief next June when the temporary tax goes away? Where will you be when the state faces this crisis in funding our schools next summer? Aren't you trying to be elected to something else? The law makers know what is coming, why haven't they done something yet to show us your good works? I know trust our law makers because...well I don't know why anymore.

  • LStearn posted at 9:00 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    LStearn Posts: 215

    According to Senator Allen "Proposition 204 (“Permanent Sales Tax Increase, Education & Transportation”) is NOT the same temporary tax that is in place now and that will expire in 2013. This is a whole new tax with many changes written into the initiative."
    I wouldn't vote for ANY tax increase no matter what, but of course they always want to not just extend a temporary tax increase, but make it permanent, and add the famous "and other purposes" clause which makes it another slush fund. NO NO NO NO NO. (And NO on the Round Valley budget override too!)

  • wes alderson posted at 10:41 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    wes alderson Posts: 9935

    The above comments sound so familiar - - At the time the "temporary tax" was put into effect, both Al and myself commented that any temporary tax tends to become permanent. Now, here we are at that juncture.

    Funny, some of my family lives in California, and there, they have a much larger "temporary tax" which was "promised" to be for education. Governor Brown of California has put a measure on the ballot to change that tax so it can be used for "unusual situations outside of Education."

    I predict that every year the State Budget would take that entire tax because there would be a way to justify the Budget as an "unusual situation."

    Despite my own conservatism, I happen to like the very liberal Governor Jerry Brown persoanlly, because of his austere personal life style - so unlike that of people such as Michelle Obama. Brown lives and works out of his sone bedroom apartment rather than occupy the Governor's mansion.

    However, let's notice that even Brown, and about 90% of all important politician, still play "games" with our taxation . . . . taking from education and allocating to other bureaucratic needs. For that sort of game, whether in Arizona, California, or any other state or the entire nation . . . .the voters need to have the gumption to stand up and say, "NO."


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