It would appear the First Amendment is really the Third Amendment.

In a suit to be heard by the Supreme Court Feb. 15, Eugene Martin Lavergne exposes the fact that 12 amendments were originally ratified, but that only 10 have ever been recognized or followed.

““Article the First” as contained in the United States Statutes at Large, specifically at 1 Stat. 97 (1789), first printed in 1845 (56 years after the actual events at issue) is in error,” says the suit.

On August 22, 1789, the House Approved one version of the real First Amendment. Later, the Senate approved a slightly different version, both of which deal with the apportionment of representatives per state.

Right now, the size of the House is frozen at 435 members, and as the country grows, your representation in that House is diluted.

Right now Ann Kirkpatrick represents over 700,000 people in CD-1. Lavergne argues that the “real” First Amendment calls for representation never to fall below one representative for every 50,000 people.

Yes, the House would consist of somewhere around 6,300 Representatives, but you’d have a greater voice with yours.

The question in my mind is … what happened to these Amendments and why have they never been recognized?

Part of the problem appears to be timing. If I understand it correctly … and there are those who say I lack that capacity … Article The First was finally ratified only when Kentucky was admitted to statehood in 1792, three years after the Amendment was drawn up. Kentucky became the 15th State in the Union, and the 12th to ratify the amendment. Twelve of 15 is 80 percent, more than enough to pass the  amendments.

Amendments, when originated and passed by the two Houses of Congress, generally come with a time limit. These amendments, however, were part of the original Bill of Rights, and according to documents from the period, no time limit was ever contemplated.

Not enough states ratified these particular Bills to get them into the original group, but the “deal” with Kentucky to bring them into the United States included them ratifying this amendment.

Why then, was it never accepted and enforced?

The records of this ratification came to light when they were unearthed in the archives of both Connecticut and Kentucky in 2011. These amendments  have been know to historians all along, but thought not to have passed.

Now there is proof they did.

One of the problems is that it is incumbent upon the states to notify Congress that they have passed a bill or amendment, and this apparently did not happen. So while these two amendments have been law for 220 years, and should have been self-enacting, the lack of notification has prevented its implementation.

It will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court does with this.

Since it’s counter-intuitive in this day and age to have a Congress made up of 6,000-plus Congressmen, I predict a mad, and unfortunate, scramble to pass a new amendment freezing Congress at 435 Representatives.

I think the country would be better represented with the larger number.

Reach the writer at droberts@wmicentral.com

(37) comments

juliussr

Mr. Roberts, are you saying that we should have have the 6,000+ greedy, individuals, instead of just 435? I hope that you are aware of the additioal cost to the Citizens for this;
#1- the initial cost for Office, staff, and residential Housing. What will this cost?
#2- the cost for all Perks that come with the Office, the gym, the coffee house, and the special resturants. How much will these cost to provide?
#3- the most important-- the increase in retail goods to provide the Lobiyest the additional money to influence the new Officers with.
Stop and think of the residual cost of having those extra's. Think of the reduction in accountability for all the loss of money in the Government then.
On the flip side-- if these new Representatives are, by Law, non-Political, non-Party and paid by their Constituants, not the Government, this might work in our benifit.

Frederick John LaVergne

Mr. "Julius Sr." - I just typed a beautifully worded explanation of why this MUST be done, only to have it immediately redacted under the censorship we've endured on this issue - "LaVergne V Bryson" was filed on 12/6/2011, and nobody before now has had the nerve to print it any way. visit NationalTruth.org or TheAmericanAurora.com to learn more.

Frederick John LaVergne

Frederick John LaVergne

Three tries to explain the truth of this issue redacted....paragraphs and paragraphs. NationalTruth.org explains "LaVergne v Bryson" and the correct results.

This is not something we "may", "might", or even "should" do....it's RATIFIED since 1792...it's what we MUST do.

Frederick John LaVergne....

Author - post after post has been redacted - please consider linking to us directly.

Frederick John LaVergne

4 comments explaining facts deleted

Frederick John LaVergne

Ratification votes by State Legislatures are self-enacting - this provision was written into the process to prevent the possibility of interference by outside events. An example of such would be the War of 1812. Further, once a State votes in the affirmative, it may not withdraw that vote. A new amendment must be passed to modify the Constitution afterward. (explains why Miss. voting to throw out the 13th amendment had no teeth, and why we had to REPEAL prohibition with a new amendment)

wes alderson

I strongly suspect Dave Roberts is calling for the actuation of that part of the Constitution re 6,000 congressmen, tongue-in-cheek. I think he wants to startle us about the fact that the beginnings of our nation and i's Constituion were anything but clean cut and decisive . . . . a fallalcy that most of us held dear to our heart.

Those of us who love our Constitution can now see that it is sprinkled with issues calling for clarification . . . . some sort of Logical Ground, such as a decision by the Supreme Court.

If we carry this line of reasoning far enough, and combine it with certain abuses of the Bill Of Rights by our current President, then it really may be time for a Constitutional Convention to straighten out the kinks that currently exist.

If we do that, God help us to avoid ruing the rest of the fine work done by the orginal authors of the Constitution.

-Pastor Wesley.

TN4994

Julius: your idea of the cost involved to add the addition congress members will scare anyone who realizes the cost of perks associated with the aides alone. But if we went back to the time when all the federal goverment did was supply room, board and transportation it wouldn't be too bad. Remember the jobs were considered part-time and one had to keep his business or farm productive, since there was no governmental retirement.

Kickyourace

What's important here is to enact all of the amendments of the Bill of Rights. Because of Hurricane Sandy in the north east, we had to reach out to our Congressman Runyon and Smith. Both Congressmen represent a million citizens. YOU CAN'T TALK TO THEM. They just have too many voices screaming at them. 50,000 voices per Representative is just about right. The founders never meant to have these guys represent this many people and representation is unequal across the states. Something that is very unconstitutional. We're a flexible nation and allowing Article the First (The Apportionment amendment) is a requirement we were promised, the states voted yes for from what Boldtruth.com shows (clearly) and the Archivist of Congress should accept the ratification as soon as possible or be forced to by the Supreme Court NOW.

Kickyourace

And I get redacted also. Very simply, this is an amendment to the constitution. One you never heard in elementry school, high school or college. Now that you know it's been ratified, it's time for Congress to start following it. The lawsuit was brought because the Archivist of Congress refused to accept that 80% of the states of the time ratified this amendment. In fact, this should have been our first amendment, not free speech. Everyone agrees that the 2nd article or what became the Watson amendment was ratified in 1992. Congress actually followed the conscripts of Article the first until the early part of the century and then voted within the house to change it to a lock of 435 representatives. Here we are a century later trying to undo what was wrongful changed. You either stand for what is right or you settle for what is left. Your voice in Congress is a must. You don't have one now.

Kickyourace

Do anyone care that it's an amendment to the Constitution, it's ratified, and yet Congress and the President ignore it? That's what the Supreme Court is for.

Frederick John LaVergne

The lawsuit the article is referring to is anything BUT tongue-in-cheek. This ratificaiton was, in all likelihood, known to the Speaker, John Dayton, in 1797...remember, though, that Dayton was later brought up on charges of treason for his complicity in the attempted rebellion by Aaron Burr, and only avoided hanging as political courtesy. Cost is irrelevant if it is ratified. We did not, and do not, pay for room and board. What we do is provide a salary. The salary is to compensate for the work done. Instead, it's the perks and post-service jobs provided by the lobbyists ih exchange for favorable treatment that brings the greedy to the game....why would someone spend 6Million dollars for a job that oays <180 a year? The gridlock in Congress is manufactured - and used as an excuse for the do-nothings we have in the offices right now.

At the end of the day, it's the law. They know - they've known for nearly two years. I have been involved with this from the beginning - which is even before the discovery of the Ct. and Ky ratifications.

Frederick John LaVergne

Why would a Congressperson who serves 50,000 need the staff necessary to serve 700,000?

juliussr

Frederick,,because they are GREEDY, selfcentered and have a love of pi--ing our money away.

Rick Slo Low

Lets see 435x 50,000=21,750,000 we will need a nuclear war to reduce the surplus population,lets see if washington comes up with the same solution.But really keep up the good work.

wes alderson

Attn. Frederick John La Vergene:

Those of us that usually bat around law and Constitutional elelemtns always love it when a new voice emberged who obvious understand history, government, and the Contutitution. Some of us have gotten tired of always having to state such things among us- only about five of us in the entire White Mountains.

So welcome to you, Sir!!!!

Right here and now, may we please ask you to send in a 300 word editorial to the WMI in which you address the need to estabish the actual ground rules of the Copntitu9on, the Supreme Court, and our national government.

Thanks!
Pastor Wesley.

wes alderson

Oh, and by the way, Kickyorace and Frederick:

Normally, WMI does not censor out any letter or editorial sent to them, unless it contains possible profantities.

What does happen is very unfortunate - cerain non-newspaper government officials in this area feel threatened by the truth, and punch the "complaint button." If a few of them do that, your comment is removed. Happens to me all the time.

Keep coming back - the truth wins.

Rev Nick

Constitution has many amendments, as does Religious writings of many books.
Control of the populace is one of the key factors of Govenment/Religion for the people as well as many other issues.
I believe another setting as in the 60's may come to pass at Washingtons footstep, hope everyone stays peaceful....

juliussr

TN, we first have to Vote all the Incombants out. Then we have to replace them with Moral and Ethical Citizens, that will hold to the Laws of the land, not sell their Vote and Soul to the highest Bidder!

rooster

Wes your arrogance and superiority is amazing. Thank your imaginary friend that you are so far above us that we need you to tell us there are Five people on the mountain that can grasp the meaning of the most complicated writings. I wonder if you will understand this little saying my father who only had an eighth grade education. "He thinks his @#*# don't stink." Now I know that there are thousands of people on the mountain that will understand this, I just hope you are not one of the 5 who do not.

wes alderson

Well, Rooster, YOU are one of the five people I was counting on to understand. How do I based my guess about the five? I suggest you stop and rest the next time you are at that supermarket and listen to the conversation flow. I did not say I was one of the five, but I try.

When you have a chance, try bouncing Euler's Theorem off any of the people you know.

By the way, my Dad had to leave school in the eighty grade, too, but that didn't stop him for self-education and going on to be Cheif Commucations Engineer for The Fourth Air Force in WW2.

I feel sure your Dad also overcame a tough start. That is the name of the game in REAL intelligence.

But, actually, I take it back. Probably about 25 people up here grasp the complicated notions such as what was discussed above - IE the core differences between expedience, ethics, and reality.

-Pastor Wesley

longgone

'Tis not knowing much, but what is useful, that makes a wise man.

Thomas Fuller

wes alderson

Rooster -

Typos again. Sorry. My Dad had to leave school to support his family in the EIGHTH grade too. I'm sure that both your Dad and mine had that will to crawl up out of the bad start that is the only way to succeed for real.

TN4994

juliussr: That's why I have a dream. That all congress, Senate and House, are composed of members drafted into service for one term only. Federal funds to be used for transportation to and from D.C. One time only. As with the US Services, holiday vacation trips are at the members expense. Housing bought and maintained by the representatives home state (like embassies) and per diem for food and clothing.
Now some will say this will lead to idiots running the country. My reply - And your point is?

juliussr

TN, what do you think we have now?

K

[offtopic] We have Idiots running the Country already and they all need to go. Today I heard that the Navy Seal who killed Bin Laden shot him 3 times and he has spend 16 years as a Navy Seal. You know what the Government gives him now after years of service a Big Nothing. Nor Retirement, No Pensions, No help for his famil, what they offered him was to change his name and drive a beer truck in Milwaukee. This is how our great government Odumbo and his clan treat a Navy Seal who put his life in danger for 16 years.

This man has trained his daughters to be very aware of danger and taught his wife to shoot a shotgun. This is the mentality running our country, can't wait for his stupid speech on Tuesday more lies, more bu------, in fact I will probably not even watch it. Can't even stand to hear his voice anymore just want to throw up.

K

Oops did not spell check. My error.

wes alderson

John Frederick Laverne,

One other things I meant to tell. When cluster of people disagree with your comments (usually government folks) and they collude to press the "Report Button" to kick your comment off line, you have a recourse of simply sending a note to Lia Agnelus at LAngeles@wmicentral.com and thell her way is happening to you. She is very responsive and will usually restore the posts which were deleted.

wes alderson

Now then, Rooster,

Let's take a look at the discipline of statistics:

Whether you and I like it or not, the intelligence quotient and knowledge content measure by standardized testing at all levels of education shows that the scores fall into a Guassian Distribution - the Normal Curve. The Bell-shaped curve applies to both the Stanford-Benet and the Wexlure-Belleview.

This means that of each 1,000 people, about 1% have an IQ of 150 or over (genius range) and about 1% fall down at about the score of 50 - idiot range.

Therefore, if we have a winter resident popultion in Show Low of about, say, 3,000 people, about 300 will lbe geniuses.

When we then apply the same statistics to the population as to who USES their intelligence to actually learn esoteric subjects such as Mathematics and Logic, we are left with about 25 people. Do you think that many of them read the editorial/opinion section in the WMI

I hope you will see that this explains my statement about the number of people who understand high end subjects.

I'm not making fun of anybody - everybody has his or her own set of talents and if they use them productively I am perfectly happy. I would not ask my doctor to do my income taxes and I would not ask my plumber to perform heart surgery.

TN4994

juliussr; I believe K gave a good response. But she left out the word 'greedy' before idiots.
Now I'm sure you've read the proposal to do away with the penny. They don't want any of us to have any common cents.[wink]

ArizAl

Hey K, that's what happens when your republican tea party idots in congress refuse to fund anything. They call it spending....as in veterans programs they consider wasteful.
If you think that's bad, wait till they push the country into another recession with their sequester. Everybody is going to suffer, including veterans. Oh, by the way, tea party darling Rubio choked in more ways than one in his response to SOTU address, he said he hates "big government" but he earns his living and recieves his healthcare from "big government", he said "big government" helped him pay for his college education. Rubio also said he was thankful that both his retired parents recieved healthcare and income from retirement programs in "big government."

My conclusion: WHAT A BIG REPUBLICAN HYPOCRITE!!

K

I think your referring to the wrong they Al, Your Dictator in Chief who thinks he is King is the one spending. In fact that is all he knows how to do is spend your money. Who has increased the debt in the last 4 years Al Barrack Hussein Obama the most Dictorial, Tryant, Corrupt, lying President in American History. This administration is who will be making us suffer by taxing us to death pushing us into his stupid healthcare meanwhile if it's good enough for the American People why aren't all Congress including your beloved President going to be included in the great Obamacare. They can spend other people's money but no not their own. You are part of the problem Al.

Oh and Al Medicare is for Retired persons who have worked all their lives to receive it as well as Social Security which they paid into. It's okay though to give all the entitlements to the illegals, the lazy people who won't work and the people who keep having kids so they can keep getting entitlements that YOU and I are paying for Al. Your the Hyprocrite.

ArizAl

Please, please, please K control yourself. Your rapidly veering into the arena of those
delusional right wing nut paranoid republicans that need to be de-Kookified with a dose of intelligent political awareness. Still, I remain optimistic that one day, you like that pennsylvania gopher will come out of your dark hole and see the light.

One of these days K, you're going to realize that capitalism-free enterprise is based on spending...that is it's lifeblood,the circulation of money. And when you and your darling tea party token latino Marco Rubio want to want to impose cuts to Medicare, veterans healthcare, or Marc Ridenhower's Medicaid so that you can give more of your and the middle class tax money to the rich and wealthy. That K is equivalent to tax increase to the middle class and the poor. To make it more clear to you K, spending cuts to Medicare,veteran's Tricare, Medicaid means they, the people, will pay more out of their pockets for those health services or their health services will be cut. All because you and your republican tea party extremists want to protect the tax writeoffs of corporations to send jobs to other countries and for the wealthy to keep their tax avoidance schemes of taking their income out of the country.

K, if you want to see what spending cuts (austerity) does to an economy. No need to look any further than England; because of their imposing austerity their economy is now worsening to triple dip recessions.

I do admire you for trying to defend the indefensible...the sweating,nervous, fidgety,dry mouth, watergate moment of someone that knows nothing and does not in fact believe what he said in his speech....the token latino Marco Rubio.

[beam]

juliussr

Wes, if you have not noticed, all the descention is directed to the Parties! All that I see here , place the dung-sack on the back of one Party or the other. Very few open their eyes to the fact that those that are Voted into Office are in the same bed! Each has his/her part in the creation and continuation of the disfunctional activities in Government.Each of these that post dissatisfaction with the Administration are also the same ones that re-elect the Parties.As you aware, the ground work was started to enable people to assist in the removal of the disfunctional from Office, only to have the big WE, turn into U,I, and 2! This attitude shows that if these people do not have someone from the other Party to bash, they are very unhappy.This attitude shows that few that gripe have the spine to stand and take the actions they ask for!
Wes the right or wrong, in this situation depends on which side of the fence you choose to be on.Those of us that walk the tight wire, staying in the neutral zone attempting to get those that are fed up to finally stand up,will probably never see a united action to regain our Country!

ArizAl

Wes,

I'm so glad that you have sworn off degrading Democrats, especially President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. From now on, if and when you do revert to your past false allegations, you will only prove that you are one of ther biggest hypocrites on the White Mountains. I hope I am wrong and you stay on the straight and narrow,but if the past is an indication, you'll be back to your same old partisan self defending right wingnuts.

K

For your information Al I am not a Republican nor is Wes, we both are Independent Voters so whomever resides in the white house or any of the congress who love spending our money and stomping all over the constitution would not be or should not be trusted.

It sounds a little to me that you are a little prejudice against hispanics Al. So keep on loving your President, Pelosi & Reid Al since they are taking our country down the crapper along with all the ignorant people who re-elected him.

We will see how it turns out Al I hope you are armed because there are some very angry people in this country who don't like their rights taken away and are sick of being lied to.

wes alderson

Julius, I wish I could thank you for your observations that both major parties engage in the same destructive actions and mind sents that are bringing down our nation.. We have discussed this before and I know we agree.

I thought maybe we had finally broken through Arizona Al's belief that all evil was Republican. But alas, see what he said above.

No, I have NOT agreed that Pelosi and Reid are good members of Congress. And certainly not obama and his VP.

Obviously they would stink regardless of whether they were Republicans or Democrats.

ArizAl

Wes, thank for you candid admission that you are indeed a "partisan." To everyone else, that is obvious. But take no shame Wes, it is far better and more respectful being a truthful "partisan" than a person being a "hypocrite." It's like the elephant hiding behind the fence post, pretending nobody can see him.[wink]

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.
Don't Threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be Truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be Nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
Share with Us. We'd love to hear eyewitness accounts, the history behind an article.