Voters in the White Mountains will receive early ballots in the mail on Aug. 3 or go to the polls Aug. 30 for the primary election. They will be charged with choosing candidates for Congressional District 1 and U.S. Senate, among other races on the statewide, county and municipal levels.

The White Mountain Independent hopes all voters will exercise their right to vote and makes the following recommendations:

Congress

The Republican primary for Congressional District 1 has a crowded field of candidates, including a few who have questionable claims of living in the district.

The list includes Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu, former Arizona Senate President and Secretary of State Ken Bennett, current Arizona House Speaker David Gowan, businessman and rancher Gary Kiehne, businessman Shawn Redd and former Lt. Col. Wendy Rogers.

District 1 sprawls over 58,000 square miles through 11 of the state’s 15 counties, contains seven national forests and is home to 12 Native American tribes. The rural district is home to many of the industries that the state’s economy was built on ­— from agriculture, mining and manufacturing to retail and tourism. The voter registration in CD1 makes it one of the more competitive districts in the country.

The 1st District needs someone to champion policy to protect our forests, build jobs by using natural resources and encouraging tourism and to fight regulation that could close three of the area’s power plants.

Gary Kiehne is that champion. A Springerville native with residences in Eagar and Casa Grande, Kiehne has private sector experience in ranching, oil and gas, trucking and the hotel industry. He understands the issues rural Arizona is facing because he has experienced them.

During this election cycle, Gowan embarrassed himself by misusing state resources. And twice over the last year, Babeu has been questioned for his department’s use of RICO funds.

While working at a general store, an employee of this newspaper witnessed Kiehne give his truck and trailer to a complete stranger at a moment’s notice because that person’s horses needed to be moved immediately from a pasture 50-some miles away and he had no other means to do it.

When Kiehne thought nobody was watching, he did the right thing.

On the other hand, while they thought nobody was looking, Gowan and Babeu likely made questionable decisions. And aside from their credentials, that’s what sets them apart.

Kiehne is authentic and exemplifies the kind of representative the state’s rural district needs. For that reason, we recommend you vote for Gary Kiehne.

The Democrats have only two candidates on the ballot and White Mountain resident James Maloney, who initially sought the office, is no longer one of them. Former police officer and Arizona Rep. Tom O’Halleran is facing Morenci resident Miguel Olivas. O’Halleran hopes to improve quality of life for veterans and reform education and has a long list of endorsements. Therefore, The Independent endorses O’Halleran.

Senate

Four Republican challengers, including one write-in candidate, are facing incumbent Sen. John McCain. The most notable challenger, a medical doctor and former state senator, Kelli Ward, is running as the anti-establishment candidate who vows to be tough on illegal immigration and believes Arizona needs new leadership. Ward claims Arizonans are “looking for someone who will represent them and their interests.”

We believe that person is John McCain. Over the years, he has fought for Arizona and the vital issues facing the White Mountains.

He understood the importance of the Apache Railway to the area and stressed to Department of Agriculture Secretary Vilsick that much of Snowflake’s economic future hinged on approval of the railway’s USDA loan. The railway was later purchased by a private company in Phoenix.

McCain understands the issues facing our forests, namely that over a million acres of ponderosa pine have been burned in the last 15 years. He understands the devastation forest fires have on the area and the lingering effects they have on our economy, as well as the need to invest in and streamline thinning projects like the Four Forest Restoration Initiative, rather than “throwing more money at fighting wildfires,” as he put it. When successful, the area’s economy will benefit with additional logging and trucking jobs, as well as the many wood products industries that have the potential to thrive with ample supply.

In addition, McCain co-sponsored the Western Water Supply and Planning Enhancement Act which, among other things, will streamline the permitting process for forest and wildland restoration efforts to help protect watersheds in critical water supply areas.

Contrary to what McCain has been called by a presidential candidate, he is an American hero who has dedicated his life to service of our country and the state of Arizona. The Independent recommends John McCain for U.S. Senate.

Multiple-term U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, who grew up in the White Mountains and has represented the area in Congress, only faces a write-in candidate, Axel Bello, in the primary. We recommend Kirkpatrick.

— BDK

Election Dates

Primary Election Day: Aug. 30

Last day to register to vote: Aug. 1

Early voting begins: Aug. 3,

Last day to request an early ballot: Aug. 19

General Election Day: Nov. 8

Last day to register to vote: Oct. 10

Early voting begins: Oct. 12

Last day to request an early ballot: Oct. 28

(41) comments

Kaempfer

It is sad that the WMI did not discuss the other Republican candidates for CD1, they focused on touting the good deed of one and the negative deeds of 2 others and just mentioned by name, the other candidates..
It is also sad to see them endorse the RINO, John McCain, that in a lot of folks' opinion really does not do much for us in AZ. When I tell folks about a real conservative that is running for his Senate seat, they say that it's about time.. Folks tell me that he just trots out his conservative lines at election time so that we will vote for him. He must be really running scared with this election since his Super PACs have been running false negative attack ads against Dr Kelli Ward. She is a real conservative that supports our military and police(her husband is also an ER doctor and a 32 year member of the Air Force and Air National Guard and a 'bird' colonel) so the false ads really are just lies. Vote for Kelli and conservative values in the primary election in a month.

Rokon

The one who wrote the letter was --BDK. The newspaper publisher I suspect. I doubt WMI has an editorial board who as a group, would ever recommend McCain for reelection. The recommendations are one guys opinion as far as I'm concerned.

che guevara

No wonder Karen Warnick left .

WMI [thumbdown]

jmeinaz

Endorsing McCain, are they on drugs?

Tired

McCain? You have got to be kidding! No wonder I canceled my subscription with WMI.

jim beck

MCCAIN????? ARE YOU FOR REAL???????????
Contrary to the wishes of the Founding Fathers, (who opposed "career" politicians), McCain has been in office since November 2, 1982, (that's 34 years!). I'd call that "career." He has taken over $400,000. from companies like Monsanto and Dow, and in return has consistently returned their favor by voting against the peoples will, (requiring mandatory labeling of GMO products). McCain, simply put is a political prostitute. Just because he's made a few good votes does not negate all the bad votes he's cast. We need representatives that represent the people NOT the corporations.
Kirkpatrick is just as bad.
The only logical choice this time around is Dr. Kelli Ward.

ArizAl

I agree that McCain,the war monger, has to go. I also agree that Ann Kirkpatrick has done more for veterans, seniors and the people of her district than either republicans Ward or Kiehne. While they were out supporting Bundy criminals threatening the U.S. government BLM ;the state law enforcement; the Sheriff and his men with violence, Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick was sponsoring legislation to help veterans, to help the Abitibi Paper Mill workers; to help 19 million Americans with healthcare.

JW

Sounds like we all can agree On the McCain train leaving the station for good.

Tired

Al you are unbelievable. The Bundy family did not threaten anyone. You are such a tool of the left. You spit on an American standing up for their rights like the Bundy's yet you support savages in the street that march singing "what do we want, dead cops" while burning the American Flag, breaking stores windows, rolling cars over and burning them. Your priorities are inside out and upside down. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with the Democrat Party of today.

ArizAl

Tired, you right wingnut schizophrenic, When the federal court ordered the Bundys to pay for years of illegally grazing their cattle in BLM land, it showed that while all other ranchers were honest and paid their grazing fees,the Bundys were stealing from the public and the federal goverment. Tired, if you don't know by now stealing is a crime, those who steal are criminals. The Bundys thought they were above the law. Republicans.Kellie Ward and Kiehne supported the law breaking Bundys.

Tired

I stand by my words, unlike Black Lives Matter, the Bundy's threatened no one. You said the Bundy's threatened others, Al. That is a lie.

jim beck

Tired, [thumbup]

Typical far left liberal Al always resorts to name-calling when someone disagrees with him.
Al says, "those that steal are criminals," but those that lie under oath to Congress, the press, the FBI, and the public are saints.

Tired

Spot on, Jim. The hypocrisy of the left is unbelievable.[wink]

ArizAl

Jim, you are such a tool for the republicans, that if the stealing of government (public) resources is done by right wing radicals like the Bundys, it meets your approval. That is evidence that you republicans always want a double standard.

BTW Jim, Clive Bundy was fined over $1 million dollars by the judges for stealing; can you show us where Hillary was legally charged for anything. Remember, your opinion is not a legal statute.

jim beck

Al, First off, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM!! I've said this many, many times on these posts: BOTH PARTIES ARE OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY THE ESTABLISHMENT, (the same establishment, by the way, that Hillary is paid off by).
As for your second point, that same establishment has garnered so much wealth, power and influence that they protect their own. If FBI Director Comey had suggested charges be brought against Hillary, he, like Vince Foster, would likely end up dead in a dumpster.

tyrrellem

Why McCain? The man is 81 years old. It is time for us to put someone new in. While McCains service to his country and the State of AZ is commendable, one has to ask......Why would someone at the age of 81 not want to retire and enjoy family and friends; relax and enjoy li

ArizAl

Jim, What is your factual proof that FBI Director would end up dead if he charged Hillary Clinton and where is your proof that Vince Foster was murdered? Opinions from other right wing nuts are not facts.

Secondly Jim, what is the establishment? Is it the republicans? The Democrats? The Independents? The libertarians? The Greens? The voters? The rich? The Middle class? The politicians that you voted into office many times over? The word establishment can mean different things to different people, Jim. What's your meaning of "establishment?"

jim beck

FBI Director Comey's testimony stated,"of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification." He also stated Hillary Clinton lied under oath regarding classified emails. There are individuals serving time in prison for lesser offenses. Comey was brave for making the damning statements against Hillary that he did. here's just a few reasons why: Vince Foster's death was 'mysterious,, and 'suspicious,' (as was Justice Scalia's), but there is a curiously long list of the Clinton's associates who also mysteriously died: (James MCDougal, banker, Ron Miller, witness, Mary Mahoney, White House intern, William Colby, CIA Director. Four of Clinton's bodyguards, all died from a bullet to the head-execution style, Paul Tully, Democratic Committee National Political Director, (unknown causes), Ed Willy, Real Estate Attorney, Clinton Fund raiser, gunshot to the head, (died on the same day his wife was allegedly sexually assaulted in the White House by Bill Clinton), Hershell Friday, Attorney and Clinton Fund Raiser,(plane exploded/cause unknown), Luther Parks, Head of Clinton's Security Team, shot 4 times in his car. Parks had been compiling a dossier on Clinton's illicit activities before his death. Kathy Ferguson, (ex-wife of Trooper Danny Ferguson who escorted Paula Jones to the hotel room where she met privately with Gov. Clinton). It was reported that Kathy Ferguson was to be a collaborating witness in the Paula Jones trail. Dr. Ronald Rogers Dentist from Arkansas Killed in plane crash as he was on his way to an interview with a London Sunday Telegraph reporter to reveal information about Clinton scandals. And the list goes on and on and on and on, (only a few listed here). Coincidences? If I were FBI Director Comey, and valued my life and the life of my loved ones, I may not have suggested that charges be brought against Hillary either.

djrefuesal

lol what a joke

ArizAl

Jim, Thank you for that long list of non-factual, right wing nut extremist's B.S. opinions, that are factually void of any legal proof. You fail to prove any of opinions as factual. In real life Jim, you have not offered any proof whatsoever of the Clintons being charged for murder, plus you are in the actual delsional belief that the head of the FBI and his investigators are all afraid of the Hillary. You also are falsely implying that the law enforcement people of the Department of Justice are all afraid for their lives because of Hillary.
In case you didn't know Jim,for any American to be found guilty of any crimes, first has to be charged, then indicted, then prosecuted. You have not proved any of those, therefore your allegations are completely false.

What Democrats can prove very easily, is that Donald Trump is being sued in court for FRAUD in the Trump University scam where he lied to people with the intent to take their life's savings and give them nothing.


Jim, FBI Director Comey also stated that Hillary Clinton was cooperative all the way through the year long investigation that she was careless but that he found no grounds that she had committed a crime, Therefore, no charges would be filed.
As Hillary testified and was backed by the State Department she recieved 3 e-mails NOT marked classified that were later, AFTER THE FACT, were marked classified.

Jim, if someone sent you an email that was not marked "classified" and you sent it forward as regular email, and months later it was marked "classified" are you guilty of sending "classified" emails? Director Comey and his investigative team did not think so.

What or who are the establishment, Jim?

Kaempfer

Unfortunately, what started out as a slam against the WMI and their gushing endorsement of candidates and not informing the public except for some names, about the OTHER candidates in the congressional(house and senate) races, it has deteriorated into a mostly liberal/conservative one-up-manship... ArizAl has been drinking the liberal/socialist coolaid for way too long...
People such as ArizAl need to watch the Hillary's America movie, get and watch the DVD, Agenda and Agenda 2 which also shows how politics in America has deteriorated and moved so far left that it is unrecognizable from what it was 50 years ago. The Democrats of today are in reality Socialists but very few people want to say THOSE words...
Billery, as Secretary of State(SOS) SHOULD have known if an email contained classified information. ANYTHING that is sensitive to the security of the U.S. and individuals working in sensitive areas is classified information... We all don't know what was in those emails that were classified or later classified but SHE and her folks in her email chains SHOULD have known that the information should have been classified and not emailed thru an unsecure server. All of those emails should have been going through a secure Dept of State server, end of story.. Many individuals that have had top secret clearances have spoken out about this since this email/server issue came to light.
Billery LIED to the American people on MANY occasions about the server, the video, and a whole laundry list of issues.
I do not know how anyone could vote for this untrustworthy woman.
That said, Mr McCain has not served the people of Arizona nor our veterans, he claims he does but what has HE done to work for our veterans? Ms Kirkpatrick SAYS she has but what has she done for us in Arizona except for follow the Democrat/Socialist party line and gave us ObummerCare...
Kelli Ward is a REAL conservative and has promised to serve at the MOST, 2 terms as our Senator. She resisted and turned away the money and support of the powerful lobbyists from the Chamber of Commerce and others and earned their wrath and condemnation for it...
If McCain wasn't so afraid of losing his seat to either Kelli or Kirkpatrick, why else would his superpacs be running the multimiilion dollar ads against them on local TV stations and Fox News Channel(not sure about the LAMESTREAM media cable channels)... Don't believe the lies about her in the 'commercials'.
Vote for Kelli Ward to represent ALL of Arizona, find out about the other candidates that the WMI did not choose to inform us about, there are a lot of them.
Please vote in the primary on 8/30 and in the general election to get candidates that will hopefully be elected to lead this country out of some of its worst years under Obummer, Reid, and Pelosi and a LOT of RINOs that just went along with them and put the screws to ALL of us Americans...

jim beck

Al, If you don't know who the "Establishment,' is, you've been living in the dark for too long.

justlookin

As far as I am concerned, this newspaper or any newspaper should not ENDORSE ANY CANDIDATE. It is up to THE PEOPLE. AND THEY ARE NOT STUPID. We can read, watch TV, go to rallies and do OUR own research.

I think this was irresponsible and should be left FOR THE PEOPLE to decide. Not a newspaper.

justlookin

And then there is AL.... calling people "schizophrenic," [yawn]

ArizAl

Kaempfer, In case you didn't know the way emails are classified is to mark them in the header and bottom which indicates they are classified. No such markings were in the questioned emails, therefore, she (Hillary) did not recieve classified emails according to the established protocol.

Kellie Ward is in support of the criminals Bundys who were stealing from the government and the public. She also was the one in the Arizona legislature to cast a vote against funding the Department of Child Safety.

ArizAl

Jim, It is not I who fears the "establishment" whatever that means, it is you. You are the one who has a problem with "the establishment," so please enlighten us all by detailing who,what, where is the establishment, and how it is different from the political process we were given by the forefathers.

xpdsniper

No more of the RINO McCain. I'm voting for Ward and if McCain is on the ballot in November I am abstaining on the senate vote.

LibertyorBust

The fact that Kelli Ward recognized the rogue and predatory actions of the BLM/fed-gov and supported the Bundy's in that much needed confrontation is as good a qualification for elected office as exists.

Her second biggest qualification is that Ariz 'Orwell' Al and those of his collectivist/statist ilk, are in opposition to her.

She has my vote and my support.

Kirkpatrick and McCain are domestic enemies of the Constitution and the Republic and both deserve to be flushed as the fecal matter that they are representative of.

It is as simple as that.

ArizAl

Obviously, the republican Captain as is republican Kellie Ward, sorely lacking in any constitutional education which was taught in the junior high level. Nowhere in the Constitution does it enumerate that government can be changed by armed violent confrontation. America's first President, George Washington, was the first President to put down those that advocated armed rebellion against the United States of America.
Abraham Linclon was another of our great Presidents that have also put down those that abhorr the government of the United States because it is a democracy not an Anarchy. republicans Kellie Ward, the Captain and Gary Kiehne are such people who supported the Clive Bundy crowd pointing and threatening law enforcement officials with firearms. That is against the U.S. Constitution as well as state laws.

Those that support the changing of our government through the use of armed violence are nothing more than Traitors of the worst kind, the equivilent of Al Quda and ISIS terrorists.

jim beck

LibertyorBust, [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

ArizAl, [thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown]

justlookin

Al just LOVES BIG GOVERNMENT and can't wait for them to come to his house and raid his house, like they did so many other times, in Waco, In Idaho, in AZ, in NV.

Al - you might try reading Ayn Rand's books. You might see where the liberals are taking us.

LibertyorBust

Poor Ariz 'Orwell' Al.... still screeching and pulling his hair out that anyone would dare to stand up to anything that the federal govt deigns or dares to do.

'Orwell' Al vomits up previous exemplars of tyrants (Washington and Constitution-pooper Abe Lincoln) as proof that America actually wasn't founded on armed rebellion to existing govt by the people.

'Orwell' Al doesn't realize it, but he equates exactly to the poster-boy Tory of the time of our founding.

I can certainly clearly see this and also clearly recognize the subversive that 'Orwell' Al actually is and clearly see the subversion that he peddles.

One final clarification, since, as usual, 'Orwell' Al deliberately inserts 'party/politics' into everything he sees (poor blind-partisan old feller), I will state once again that I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. I belong to no party, nor do I subscribe to the falsity of the 'party-system'.

My votes/allegiance go only to those who actually measure up to adherence to the Constitution and who demonstrate understanding of and allegiance to the Principles of our Founding.

Any who do not measure up, regardless of the phony letter behind their name, are summarily rejected. A concept utterly alien to wild-eyed indoctrinated partisan hacks, such as Ariz 'Orwell' Al and his ilk.

A point for poor 'Orwell' Al to get his panties in a wad over.....

'There is no Left and Right. There is only Tyranny or Freedom'.

TN4994

Al: Evidently you are misled. Very few of my votes ever went to the winner of any election. Perhaps it's because I don't vote the Republicratic way.

ArizAl

Again, the Captain's lack of constitutional comprehension is laid out there in the open for everyone to witness. It is utterly incomprehensible how a person,the Captain, could so informationally deprived and so paranoid at the same time.


"'Orwell' Al vomits up previous exemplars of tyrants (Washington and Constitution-pooper Abe Lincoln) as proof that America actually wasn't founded on armed rebellion to existing govt by the people." per Captain


Apperantly the republican extremist Captain is unaware that America was founded on armed rebellion before the U.S. Constitution was written, against the British government, not the government of the United States of America which is what the republican extremist Captain is proposing. The republican extremist Captain offers further proof of his demented hatred for the United States by refering to our forefathers, Washington and Linclon, in derogatory language as "Tyrants."

The hypocritical anarchist republican Captain has just shared his contempt for our country and there is nothing that anyone could say to justify his words.

jim beck

The U.S. Constitution simply does not authorize the federal government to own land.
All of it is being held unconstitutionally and should be returned to its rightful owners . . .the people. That includes BLM land.

LibertyorBust

'Orwell' Al, you are a real asset to me. Thank you.

Lil Hims says............."The republican extremist Captain offers further proof of his demented hatred for the United States by refering to our forefathers, Washington and Linclon, in derogatory language as "Tyrants."

The hypocritical anarchist republican Captain has just shared his contempt for our country and there is nothing that anyone could say to justify his words."

'Demented hatred', lil' hims says...lol.

"Orwell' Al cannot process the difference between contempt for current collectivist operating govt vs. 'country', but, then, it is critical to note that to a collectivist-statist, such as 'Orwell' Al, govt IS country and govt IS their deity.

Lil' hims cannot connect factual acts with deification and myth reference past tyrants.

A sitting President, prompted by the actions of the original American-statist Alexander Hamilton, personally leading troops against the Scots-Irish in Western Pa due to the so-called 'Whiskey Rebellion' where they refused to pay a new tax, after we had just fought a revolution against such tyranny.

Yep..that, right there, is some real principled freedom and liberty dispensed to purported sovereign and free-men and that 'freedom and liberty' was sure respected by ol' George.

As to Dishonest Abe the Constitution-pooper, his myth and deification does squat to negate his tyranny and massive abrogations of the Constitution or of his direct decisions which led to the death of over 600 thousand Americans in a 'war' that flew in the face of everything we were founded upon.

Of course, 'Orwell' Al, you will not get any of that, whether willfully or ignorantly. Govt is his God and the machinations of governance is his religion.

Doesn't matter either way, it is what it is.

Keep'em coming 'Orwell', I love it.

ArizAl

Hey Captain of the republican anarchists, did you know that you and your ilk have been rejected losers by our forefathers as well as all Americans since the Constitution was penned 235 years ago? How does it feel to be rejected by hundreds of millions of Americans past and present? In anybodys book that is one humongous rejection, which qualifys you as the biggest loser of all history. Oh BTW you loser, our government,the one you hate, was created by the Constitution. What a pendejo!!

LibertyorBust

'Orwell' Al says.............."...our government,the one you hate, was created by the Constitution. "

Well golly gee-whizzers, 'Orwell' Al...yeppers, it was.

Problem is that those of your ilk have taken that Constitution and the government it specified and have turned it into a perverted burgeoning-tyranny, a collectivist-construct which abrogates, usurps, sidesteps, ignores and otherwise 'gets around' that pesky Constitution created by the People and the several States and which created said government.

I detest what govt has perverted into and I utterly detest the subversives (that's you and your ilk, 'Orwell' Al) who enable and facilitate that govt in working its anti-constitutional evils.

Please keep them coming.

ArizAl

Sounds like Trump hired a hit man. He has always said when critisized, he will strike back even worse. That's one reason why everyone including National security considers him a dangerous person who should not be President. Hillary Clinton stands in the way of Trump handing the running of the U.S. government to his pal Validmar Putin.

ArizAl

"Problem is that those of your ilk have taken that Constitution and the government it specified and have turned it into a perverted burgeoning-tyranny, a collectivist-construct which abrogates, usurps, sidesteps, ignores and otherwise 'gets around' that pesky Constitution created by the People and the several States and which created said government.

I detest what govt has perverted into and I utterly detest the subversives (that's you and your ilk, 'Orwell' Al) who enable and facilitate that govt in working its anti-constitutional evils." per the Captain of the losers, the paranoid right wingnut Anarchists.

Tha Captain of the losers, again shows his inability to mount a coherent defense of his delusional beliefs.

To begin with, the ilk that which I associate by beliefs is the same ones that wrote the Constitution 235 years ago which created the government of "we the people," of the "people", by the "people", for the "people." Notice Captain of the losers, that "people" is plural for a single person and that Anarchism and Individualism, singlularism,your belief, is that all government is evil. Which begs the curious question, why do live in a society created by the collective of American forefathers and run by the collective of all Americans since then?

Futhermore, Captain of the loser republicans, the Constitution in Article III empowers the judiciary to decide cases of law and equity under this Constitution. Can you post your credentials or where in the Constitution, it is enumerated that you are have a vested power to decide constitutionality of any law? LOL

LibertyorBust

'Orwell Al says................"Can you post your credentials....that you are have a vested power to decide constitutionality of any law? "

Well gee-whizers 'Orwell' Al, yes I can.

Credentials:

LibertyorBust is a free man who is not a slave to, does not work for, nor is he beholden to, the Federal Government.

LibertyorBust can read, reason, discern, assess and otherwise think independently, as all individuals should, therefore, he does so.

By the power of my 'being', LibertyorBust is thereby 'vested' to decide, to speak and to do for himself, as he chooses.

Since LibertyorBust is not 'the government' he is not restrained by nor framed by the Constitution, but said government is.

How's that 'Orwell' Al?

Lol, indeed.

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