Has anyone else figured out that the numbers the CDC has reported about flu infections and death are made up just to sell their flu vaccine?

California declared a state of emergency since one person has died from the coronavirus. One person. 

At the 2004 "National Influenza Vaccine Summit," co-sponsored by CDC and the American Medical Association, Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at the NIP, (National Immunization Program), spoke on using the media to boost demand for the vaccine. One step of a "Seven-Step Recipe for Generating Interest in, and Demand for, Flu (or any other) Vaccination" occurs when "medical experts and public health authorities publicly … state concern and alarm (and predict dire outcomes) — and urge influenza vaccination."

Another step entails "continued reports … that influenza is causing severe illness and/or affecting lots of people, helping foster the perception that many people are susceptible to a bad case of influenza." No one was ordering the flu vaccine. So they decided to scare you into getting one. To make money. If 129 cases of coronavirus in a country with over 330 million people is cause for alarm, then, obviously, the real numbers for influenza infections and death are incorrect.

Tara Cluff,


(24) comments


Ms. Cluff.................The earth is flat, isn't it?


Mrs... And OF COURSE it's NOT! But! "influenza/pneumonia" is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm). But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? According to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), "influenza and pneumonia" took 62 034 lives in 2001—61 777 of which were attributed to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was flu virus positively identified.


O.K. Tara, so what are the real numbers and what are your sources?


U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.


I am a pediatrician and this propaganda affects my practice directly.

Kenneth Stoller

International Hyperbaric Medical Associationam a pediatrician and this propaganda affects my practice directly.

Kenneth Stoller

International Hyperbaric Medical Association

“In a written statement, CDC media relations responded to the diverse statistics: "Typically, influenza causes death when the infection leads to severe medical complications." And as most such cases "are never tested for virus infection...CDC considers these [NCHS] figures to be a very substantial undercounting of the true number of deaths from influenza. Therefore, the CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza." CDC's model calculated an average annual 36 155 deaths from influenza associated underlying respiratory and circulatory causes (JAMA 2003;289: 179-86[Abstract/Free Full Text]). Less than a quarter of these (8097) were described as flu or flu associated underlying pneumonia deaths. Thus the much publicised figure of 36 000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate—generated by a model—of flu-associated death."



Preceding the summit, demand had been low early into the 2003 flu season. "At that point, the manufacturers were telling us that they weren't receiving a lot of orders for vaccine for use in November or even December," recalled Dr Nowak on National Public Radio. "It really did look like we needed to do something to encourage people to get a flu shot."


The CDC responded to Dr. Stoller regarding the influenza statistics they put out.

This site won't let me post the link, easily found by googling "CDC response Kenneth Stoller"

Dr. Stoller is part of the anti-vaccination movement. Most recently under investigation in California for allegedly issuing unlawful vaccine exemptions for children.


...and the lizard people are behind the whole thing! [alien]


No lizard people. Just the CDC, National Immunization Program, and AMA.


The Washington Nursing home was a disaster, but can we learn from it. It was a disaster because the virus came in contact with a subset of our population which are at HIGH risk. As the virus spreads these deaths will not be centralized and interspersed result will be normalized by the sickened but surviving members of our community. ICU beds will be quickly overrun with ederly Covid 19 patients and room for those who normally would be in ICU will disappear.

What if we create volunteer safe zones for currently healthy seniors? Wuhan is still in quarantine because of the long incubation period of the virus. Will we be quarantined less because we live in the US? Being quarantine for such a long time alone would create emotional scars not needed and having others in quaratine with you would provide confidence to stay in their quarantine for older Americans.

Limit the groups size( 10?), they could fit into existing large homes, no forced quarantine. Church groups might get together, community groups like trailer parks, senior centers, activity groups, and neighborhood could set up, self quarantine groups. These groups need to find designated contact people to assist in providing supplies, maintaining information to the outside world, and other needs as they arise. Throw the idea out to the public to organize on their own now and to enact if they feel concerned later.


With more information, I would include any individuals who are over 55, obese, have respiratory problems or other health issues. While China may have had lower percentages of death, they don't have as many people who fit into the obese category. Italy more aligns with the USA in that concern, they have a death rate of 7%. It is natural to feel uncomfortable and fearful in discussions about this situation. I know I reacted with denial initially. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are common steps in this process. It begins with discussing the topic with friends and family.


Tara, don't let these guys discourage you from doing your own thinking. The insane media circus over C-19 should make anyone do that old calculation: follow the money.


Denial of what is happening is common. When the titanic was hit by an iceberg, panic ensued. There were two types of people who calmed passengers. 1. Musicians who played music. 2. Those who loaded the boats. Too many boats left, not filled or the lines were cut causing them to capsize in panic. I want to be the one who filled the boat and reassured the passengers. If the Titanic didn't sink we would pick them up later, if it did they were making the right decision. Self Quarantine now. Think of it as an adventure. Think of those around you who you love. Self Quarantine


We've ALL been mislead when it comes to the REAL NUMBERS for INFLUENZA! Those numbers have been inflated. (pretty sure we're not getting the whole story on how many cases, in the world, there really is of people who have the coronavirus, either. I find it hard to believe that countries SO CLOSE to China. Such as Iran and Russia have such LOW number of cases. Yes, it COULD be because of testing... Or the lack thereof.... But, I'm sure there's a LOT more cases than we are told...)


Oops. I meant Iraq. Not Iran.




Sunnysummers: Thanks for your research and input. One point of clarification: While it is true that the death certificates of large numbers of flu patients reflect pneumonia, heart attack or stroke as the cause of death, the reality is that they were infected first with flu and the flu led to complications which appeared on the death certificate. They were all killed by the flu, nonetheless. This is quite common in medicine. For example, an alcoholic falls and dies from a fractured skull. That will be the cause of death shown on the death certificate but that was merely the instrument of death. The cause of death was alcoholism.

Most of this discourse is interesting; however, it ignores the real problems we face. Let us disregard for the moment the incompetence, science denial, lying and moral degradation of the administration in dealing with this. The underlying cause of our total lack of ability to counter a pandemic of this size is the fact that we lack two essential things.

First, we have no federal sovereign wealth fund as many other nations do. Norway leads the world with over one trillion USD, followed by China, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Hong Kong. The USA is not listed. What is more, our federal government does not appropriate sufficient funds each year to cover the expenditure budgets they pass, leading to endemic deficit funding and a large national debt. When disasters occur, the best managed nations can rely upon their sovereign wealth funds to blunt the economic effect in their nations. We are forced to borrow even more, as we recently did in the Great Recession and are doing now to repeat that same mistake. What is more, even the borrowed funds are mostly deployed to bail out big banks and other corporations instead of going mostly to the bottom half of the income spectrum which has the largest propensity to spend. We must begin by employing a far more progressive federal income tax, imposing a wealth tax and taxing Wall Street transactions in order to balance our budget, begin paying down the debt and creating a revolving federal sovereign wealth fund of two trillion dollars.

Second, we face this and all future such crises with a relentlessly disintegrating national infrastructure which includes our national medical infrastructure where we presently have inadequate surge capability to deal with large scale pandemics. We therefore badly need a Nation Infrastructure Bank with which to fund and rebuild not only our crumbling non-medical infrastructure, but a health care reserve system as well. Just as we fund fire departments, even though there may not be any fires, or their occurrence is highly irregular, we must also fund medical resources which includes, on-the-shelf supplies of respirators, gloves, masks, wipes, ambulances, etc. and trained personnel. In addition we must maintain a hospital room and ICU crisis capacity to handle a patient surge of one million or more, as expert advice from doctors and other scientists advise.


I'm not saying that this, VERY REAL, coronavirus isn't bad! And, yes, MANY DO die every year from influenza! Nor am I saying that high risk individuals shouldn't get a flu vaccine. My point was just that the numbers the CDC throws at us are not the TRUTH. They deliberately make it sound worse than it is just to make money.


Our lack of tests and the regulatory structure to limit testing is so completely different from South Korea which has had the fewest transmission. Arizona has gone through a 3 day doubling amounting to 44 confirmed cases. If we had less testing - we have lower number, if we have more testing - we have higher. Sunny summers I believe you are being misled.


scubagal: [beam][thumbup] Right you are. In my household we are determined to be part of the solution rather then part of the problem. We are therefore choosing to shelter-in-place until this pandemic is over or an effective vaccine is available. I thank you for your common sense and public responsibility.


Just Googling the coronavirus won't get you much information on this. They mention it. But just as a side note. But if you look at the this article and search specifically for it........ https://www.covidtrial.io/


So is there a tax we can pay to magically end coronavirus?

Or does that only work for climate change?


Lol. The climate has been changing on this planet for millions of years! Eventually, it WILL loose its "bubble" that protects us from the sun. No matter what we do! But, the things we do or not do, DOES affect it! Changing anything can only buy us, as a species, more time...


Sunnysummers: The only way you could know that is to know what the real numbers are. Please post them and your sources. I thought not.

Steve King

Spot on Sunnysummers.

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